John Turnbull1,2,3

(circa December 1817 - 26 June 1885)
FatherRobert Turnbull2 (cir. Jan 1774 - May 1854)
MotherEleanor Scott2 (cir. 1780 - Sep 1846)
Relationship3rd great-uncle of Lorna Henderson

BMDB data

     John Turnbull was born cir. Dec 1817 Haithwaite Gate, Par. of Nichol Forest, CUL, ENG, (place as Hathwat Gate.)2 He was christened on 24 Dec 1817 Nichol Forest, CUL, ENG; the entry showing that Robert and Eleanor were living at Hathwat (sic) Gate.2
     John Turnbull married Isabella Martin, daughter of Gilbert Martin, on 5 Dec 1844 St Cuthbert, Carlisle, CUL, ENG, cert shows that: John was a book keeper resid. Liverpool, s/o Robert Turnbull, joiner; Isabella was resid. Blackfriars St, d/o Gilbert Martin, builder; John and Isabella were both of full age and signed their names, married by license by Benjn Ward, wit: Thos Nanson (?Hanson) and Margaret Martin.4,5,6,7
     John Turnbull died on 26 Jun 1885 Whiteclose Gate, nr Carlisle, CUL, ENG; his h/stone agreeing his age (67) but the St Cath's dth index showing him as 66.1,8,9,3 He was buried with Isabella Turnbull at the Richardson St Cem., Carlisle, CUL, ENG, the h/stone reading: John Turnbull who died at Whiteclose Gate near Carlisle 26 Jun 1885 aged 67, late of Prospect Place, Stanwix. Also of Isabella his wife who died at Carleton Villa, Stanwix Nov 10th 1899 advanced in years and Ellen their daughter died at Cambrian Villa, Stanwix, Aug 10th 1903 and John their son who died at Cambrian Villa, Stanwix, Feb 21st 1913 aged 53; Burial index adds Ellen d 13.8.1903, Isabella 10.9.1899, John 26.6 1885, John 21.2.1913, Ellen's looking like a burial date instead.1,9
     Well, yet another of the Turnbull sons found. For the last 3 yrs Rose and I have been intermittantly corresponding to see if we could solve the mystery of her John's parentage. With children named Robert and Ellen and both a Carlisle and London connection, he "felt" to me that he should be the John, brother to my 2x greats, James, sons of Robert and Eleanor of Nichol Forest, Cumberland. Proof however was elusive, and Rose's John rather economical with the truth when it came to where and when he was born. The first known date/place (c 1818, Arthuret) was from his age at his dth in Carlisle, which was close enough to a Dec 1817 baptism in Nichol Forest. Subsequent census information proved both hard to find, and contradictory. He was eventually found in all census records 1851 to 1881, and these resulted in birth dates/places as varied as: c. 1823 England (1881 when he was in Scotland); c. 1823 Scotland (1861 census when he was in England); c. 1821 Nicol Forest (from 1851); and c 1818 again (1871 census). Combining all of these with his marriage cert, again eventually found, did indeed prove he was the son of Robert Turnbull, joiner.
Which id was subsequently confirmed when Bridget found and sent me the 1891 obit of James, published in the Carlisle Patriot, copying Huirangi (NZ) papers, and adding "Mr Turnbull was a native of Haithwaitegate near this city and brother of the late Mr John Turnbull of White Close Gate."10,8,5,11,12,13,14,4,3

Census/Where lived/Occupations

     In Dec 1844 John Turnbull was a book keeper Liverpool, LAN, ENG, when he married Isabella.4
     John Turnbull appeared on the census of 1851 Hartland Rd (2), Kentish Town, St Pancras, MDX, ENG, with Isabella Turnbull, enumerated as TURNBULL: John head, 30, rail clerk b Nicol Forest; wife Isabella 28 b Tedburgh (sic) (Jedburgh assumed); Dtrs: Eliza M 4; Ellen 3; Isabella 9mths all b St Pancras, MDX.13
     By Jul 1852 John Turnbull and Isabella Martin were living 1 Southampton Tce, Gospel Oak Fields, Kentish Town, St Pancras, MDX, ENG, when son Robert born, John being described as a railway clerk.15
     John and Isabella Turnbull appeared on the census of 1861 Newtown, Caldewgate, Carlisle, CUL, ENG, as TURNBULL: John head 38 railway clerk b SCT; (next page) wife Elizabeth (sic) 38 b SCT; Children: Margaret 14; Ellen 12; Elizabeth (sic) 10; Robert 8; (all scholars b MDX, London); John 5 b MDX; Christina 4 b Maryport, CUL (names don't quite gel with previous info: wife and 3rd dtr should be Isabellas instead of Elizabeths). It would also appear that Margaret, Ellen, Robert and Christina were enumerated twice in this census as they appear on their own at Kirkborough, Dearham in a household with no "Head" listed, the 4 children listed as son/dtr with the right birthplaces and ages, and a 55 yr old Lodger Robert Wilson, 55 schoolmaster b Carlisle; and, presumably his dtr, Mabel 8 b Liverpool, LAN.12,16
     John Turnbull appeared on the census of 1871 Duke St (25), Whitehaven, St Bees, CUL, ENG, enumerated as John Turnbull, lodger 53, married, travelling book seller b Arthuret, CUL (with Esther Pettigrew, unm, 38 and her sister Eliza Ann Castlebrow widowed 32, lodging house keepers b Whitehaven.)10
     The census of 1881 showed John with his wife Isabella, their dtr Margaret Cottage, Rigg Village, Gretna, DFS, SCT, household enumerated as TURNBULL: John, 58, b England, traveller in books, wife Isabella, 56, b Jedburgh, ROX. Dtr Margaret Christina, 21, b ENG.14

Family

Isabella Martin (cir. 1825 - Nov 1899)
Children
  • Elizabeth Margaret Turnbull17,13 (Jun 1846 - aft. 1871)
  • Ellen Turnbull1,13 (Feb 1848 - Aug 1903)
  • Isabella Turnbull5,13 (Jun 1850 - aft. 1911)
  • Robert Turnbull15,18,12 (Jul 1852 - aft. 1871)
  • John Turnbull1,12 (1856 - Feb 1913)
  • Margaret Christina Turnbull5,12 (cir. Jun 1857 - cir. Mar 1914)
ChartsAncestors (& their siblings) of Alice HENDERSON nee ANDREWS
TURNBULL
Last Edited2 Apr 2016

Citations

  1. Rose Edy (33698), "EM TURNBULL, Robert of London," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, From Carlisle Cemetery h/stone, rcvd Mar 2003.
  2. Baptisms: Nichol Forest, CUL, ENG, Bap. 1817 John TURNBULL, son of Robert and Eleanor, extracted Aug 1994 (1813 to 1835), PR177/18.
  3. Bridget C, "EM CUL Families: Bridget C," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Obit. 12 Jun 1891 James TURNBULL, native of Haithwaitegate, brother of the late Mr John TURNBULL of White Close Gate", published in the Carlisle Patriot, transcr. rcvd Nov 2009.
  4. Various, BDM Certified copy, Marr. 1844 John TURNBULL and Isabella MARTIN (reg. Carlisle Dec qtr 1844 vol 25/51) certified copy dated 20 Dec 2005, rcvd Jan 2006.
  5. Rose Edy (33698), "EM TURNBULL, Robert of London," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Mar 2003.
  6. Birth index: St Caths:, Birth 1852 Robert TURNBULL, Reg. St Pancras, Sep qtr folio 1b/130, extracted Apr 2003.
  7. Www FreeBMD ENG online at http://freebmd.rootsweb.com/cgi/search.pl, Marr. 1844 Carlisle John TURNBULL, Dec qtr, 25/51, extracted Dec 2005, (wife not yet on FreeBMD).
  8. DTH INDEX: St Caths:, Dth 1885 John TURNBULL, Reg Carlisle, qtr 2 aged 66, #10b/(362?), extracted Mar 2003.
  9. TURNBULL: misc. www & corres. TURNBULL burials, Richardson St Cem, Carlisle, ref.124/3, from http://www.carlislehistory.co.uk/cemeterytuv.html, extracted Jan 2007.
  10. 1871 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Whitehaven, St Bees, Dist 13 RG10/5256 Folio 35 Page 19 Schedule#132, hsehold of Esther PETTIGREW, copy d/loaded Sep 2005.
  11. "Lorna's Family History Musings", Jan 2006.
  12. 1861 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Caldewgate, CUL Dist 16 RG9/3921 Folio 71 Pages 44/5 Schedule #233, hsehold of John and Elizabeth (sic) TURNBULL, extracted May 2005.
  13. 1851 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Kentish Town, Pancras, MDX Dist 1p HO107/1498 Folio 515 Page 1 Schedule #3,hsehold of John & Isabella TURNBULL, copy d/loaded Oct 2005.
  14. 1881 Census transcripts, UK, via Family Search/LDS CDs, Rigg Village, Gretna, DFS, FHL Film 0224048 GRO Ref Volume 827 EnumDist 6 Page 7, hsehold of John * Isabella TURNBULL, extracted Mar 2003.
  15. Various, BDM Certified copy, Birth 1852 Robert TURNBULL, reg. St Pancras, Kentish Town, MDX, certified p/copy rcvd Nov 2005.
  16. 1861 Census images, England & Wales, via Ancestry.com, Dearham, CUL Dist 14 RG10/3943 ED ? Page 40 Schedule #214, Margaret, Ellen, Robert, Christina TURNBULL, extracted Jul 2005.
  17. Online search: assorted surnames, International Genealogical Index (IGI), TURNBULL Batch C097741 1822 - 1856 0825329 (RG4 4312) Film 6904069, searched Mar 2003.
  18. Rose Edy (33698), "EM TURNBULL, Robert of London," e-mail to Lorna Henderson, Email rcvd Mar 2003.

E. & O. E. Some/most parish records are rather hard to read and names, places hard to interpret, particularly if you are unfamiliar with an area.